STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA                                                        BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS

COUNTY OF HENDERSON                                                                                           OCTOBER 14, 2004


The Henderson County Board of Commissioners met for a special called meeting at 6:00 p.m. in the Commissioners' Conference Room of the Henderson County Office Building.


Those present were:  Chairman Grady Hawkins, Vice-Chairman Larry Young, Commissioner Bill Moyer, Commissioner Charlie Messer, Commissioner Shannon Baldwin, County Manager David E. Nicholson, Assistant County Manager Justin Hembree, County Attorney Angela S. Beeker, and Clerk to the Board Elizabeth W. Corn.


Also present were: Planning Director Karen C. Smith and Planner Anthony Prinz.



Chairman Hawkins called the meeting to order at 6:03 p.m. and welcomed all in attendance.


QUASI-JUDICIAL PROCEEDING – Application for Statutory Vested Rights for a proposed storage facility at 4001 Asheville Highway – Application # VR-04-01

WFWA, LLC, also known as P.I. Storage, Inc., Applicant

Chairman Hawkins made the motion for the Board to go into public hearing.  All voted in favor and the motion carried.


Chairman Hawkins – “Ladies and Gentleman, a quasi-judicial proceeding is being held today to consider an application for a vested right pursuant to Chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code for a proposed storage facility to be located at 4001 Hendersonville Road, Application #VR-04-01 by William Barnwell on behalf of WFWA, LLC, also known as P.I. Storage, Inc.  A quasi-judicial proceeding, much like a court proceeding, is a proceeding in which one’s individual rights are being determined.  The proceedings will be conducted under the Henderson County Board of Commissioners Rules of Procedure for Quasi-Judicial Proceedings.  Only persons who can demonstrate that they will be affected by the outcome of the decision are allowed to participate in the proceedings. 


Just an overview of the proceedings – All persons who speak and participate, including any witnesses that will be called, will be placed under oath.  The Board will ask the Applicant or the Applicant’s attorney what evidence the Applicant wishes to present to support of his request.  After the Applicant is finished, anyone else who has expressed a desire to be a party and who the Board has recognized as a party would then be allowed to present their evidence.  All parties will be given an opportunity to ask questions of all witnesses testifying in this proceeding.  The Board will be given an opportunity to ask questions also.  After the evidence is presented the Board will discuss the issues raised and will make a decision.  The Board’s decision must be made within 30 days of the close of the hearing and must be made in writing within 45 days of the hearing.


At this time we’ll identify parties, uh, the Board acknowledges the applicant, William Barnwell, manager of WFWA, LLC, also known as P.I. Storage, Inc., and the Planning Staff as parties to this proceedings.  Are there any other persons present who can demonstrate that they will be affected by the outcome of this proceeding and who wish to be a party to the proceedings? Sir, if you’ll come forward and uh tell us why you need to be a party to the proceeding.”


Robert Hansen – “I’m Robert Hansen.  I uh own property adjacent to the subject property.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Alright. That I think would make him a party with the Board’s concurrence.  OK, thank you. We’ll call you back in just a minute to be sworn.  Any other parties?”


David Holz – “I’m David Holz.  I’m a property owner on Ferenvilla Drive, 6 Ferenvilla Drive, and I represent the – most of the neighbors on Ferenvilla Drive.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Karen, is that the road that’s back on the back side of it? OK.  Anybody have any objections to him being a party?  OK, we’ll have you as a party, Mr. Holz.  Yes Mam.”


Linda Crowell – “I’m Linda Crowell and I’m on Ferenvilla Drive, directly across from where they propose  phase III.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Anybody have an objection to Ms. Crowell being a party? OK, thank you Ms. Crowell. Are there any witnesses?”


Commissioner Moyer – “Wait a minute, we’ve got somebody else here, Grady.”


Francis Zuiderhof – “I’m Francis Zuiderhof and I’ve probably got about 400 feet of property adjacent to what they’re doing.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Anybody have any objections to him being a party?  OK, we’ll take you as a party.”


Francis Zuiderhof – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any, any other parties or witnesses?  OK at this time I’ll – pardon – one more? This fella looks familiar.”


Paul Patterson – “I’m Paul Patterson.  I’m the engineer for uh Mr. Barnwell.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK”


Attorney Beeker – “He’ll be a witness.”


Chairman Hawkins – “He’d be a witness?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “I – I had a question about the one gentleman that stood and spoke and said he was representing other property owners in that area.  Are we admitting him under that condition, to allow him to speak on their behalf or just”


Attorney Beeker – “He’d be representing himself.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any – anyone else?”

A gentleman in the audience - “Could I ask a question?  Does my wife need to be?”


Chairman Hawkins – “If – if she’s gonna speak, she’ll either need to be a party or a witness. If you plan on being a witness, just come to the mic and tell us why – or sir are you gonna call them as witnesses?”


Same gentleman in the audience - “Not necessarily.  She may have something to say on her own.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Are you – do you want to be a party to the hearings?”


Lady in audience – “Yes sir”


Chairman Hawkins – “Why should – and why should you be a party, because you’re located – you live adjacent to it?”


Same lady in audience -            “Up above what they’re doing.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK and what’s your name?”


Same lady in audience – “Carol Hansen”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, does anyone object to Ms. Hansen being a party?  OK.”


Ann Zuiderhof – “I’m Ann G. Zuiderhof and I live with Fran.  Our property is right up against the new uh storage facilities.  Our backyard faces it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Anyone object to Ms. Zuiderhof being a party?  Ms. Zuiderhof, we’ll take you as a party then. Any – any other parties or witnesses? OK this is the hard part now.  All parties to the proceeding needs to be sworn in so if you all will approach the Clerk over here, she’ll – uh you need to give her your name and address and then she’ll take the oath and then we’ll move on from there.”


All the parties/witnesses stepped over to the Clerk and gave their addresses to the Clerk as well as checked the spelling of their names. 


Lanett Strickland – “I’m Lanett Strickland.  I live at 15 Ferenvilla Drive and I’m as a witness.”


Chairman Hawkins – “You’re gonna be called as a witness?”


Lanett Strickland – “Yes”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, then all – I think all you need to do is be sworn in or take the oath.”


Lanett Strickland – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “And we will need to get your name.”


Mr. McElmurray – “Clarence and Margaret McElmurray, 19 Ferenvilla Drive.  We’re here as a witness.”

Chairman Hawkins – “You’re gonna be witnesses?”


Mr. McElmurray – “Right”


Commissioner Messer – “What was that address again?”


Clarence McElmurray – “17 Ferenvilla Drive”


The Clerk continued to get information and to swear-in the witnesses and parties to the proceeding.


Ms. Corn, Clerk – “Those who have already signed, if you’ll come place your left hand on the Bible and raise your right hand.  You need to touch the Bible with your left hand please and raise your right hand.  Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you shall give to the Board of County Commissioners shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God.”


In unison – “I do”


This happened again twice to get everyone sworn in. Commissioners were making small talk during this process.


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, thank you.  And before we being the proceeding, are there any Board members who feel they cannot sit as an impartial decision-maker in today’s proceedings? Are there any Board members who have received information regarding this proceeding prior to tonight’s meeting and if so, please indicate what information you have received so that it may become part of the record. OK, then we’ll go ahead and begin the proceedings. We’ll start out with uh staff’s overview, Ms. Smith.”


Karen Smith – “Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Chairman stated, the purpose of tonight’s hearing is for the Board to consider a – an application for statutory vested rights under chapter 189 of the Henderson County Code, which is the vested rights ordinance. The application, VR-04-01, was submitted by William Barnwell, manager of WFWA, LLC, which is the property owner and it’s also known as P.I. Storage Inc. for proposed storage facility.  While I’ll have the opportunity later in the hearing to introduce evidence, I wanted to go ahead and enter the materials that are in the packet that the Board already has in front of you that you received prior to the hearing. Uh I’ll be reviewing those materials as part of my introduction and the parties have received those materials now.  If you look at attachment 3 in the packet  which Anthony is also – has up on the uh television screen, you’ll see that the property owned by WFWA, LLC is located at 4001 Asheville Hwy. which is also US #25 North.  It has frontage on both Asheville Hwy. and Ferenvilla Drive. (Directed to Anthony - If you’ll point to both of those, if you don’t mind.) County records show that the subject parcel has approximately 5.87 acres.  According to the site plan which is found in attachment 2 in the packet, the storage facility will contain ten storage buildings, each with multiple storage spaces, as well as an office building.  The site plan also shows an existing dwelling on the subject property.  Anthony is pointing some of these things out on the screen.  The plan shows that the storage facility is going to be constructed in three phases; however, I learned this afternoon um that the applicant is actually only seeking a vested right on phase III so we’ll have to figure out how to address that as we proceed with the hearing.  Most of my comments are based on the whole property being part of the vested rights and it may or may not hurt to go ahead and proceed as if it’s the whole property but I’ll leave that to the Board.  Anthony, can you outline phase III there? Just – it’s just that back – back portion.  Attachment # 4.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Do you mind if I stop you at this point?”


Karen Smith – “Go right ahead.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Is the applicant officially amending his applicant – application to do this?”


Karen Smith – “I – I want him to address that when he presents his evidence to the Board.  It’s been my understanding through the whole thing that it was the whole property but apparently it – that was not the case.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “I think we need to do that first.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Before we proceed so we know what the purpose of the hearing is and whether we can proceed on that basis.”


Karen Smith – “OK”


Commissioner Moyer – “Well, that’s just my opinion.”


Karen Smith – “Would you like to hear from Mr. Barnwell then?”


Commissioner Moyer – “I would … if the Board’s agreeable.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah, let me look back here just one second and see what.  Karen, on this application, it doesn’t – it doesn’t indicate any of the phases and what you’re saying is that you considered it as a complete package for attachment 1?”


Karen Smith – “Yes, since the site plan showed the entire site, I assumed that it was and I believe the project engineer who submitted it also believed it to be the whole project.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, Mr. Barnwell, could we ask if you’re amending your application at this point or are you wanting the uh – the – as applied for here on the attachment 1 I’ve gotten – I think you’ve got that in your package and it doesn’t indicate any discrimination between I, II, and II phase.”


William Barnwell – “Right, well when you get a building permit in Henderson County it’s good fer well six months unless you go to work on it and then good fer a year if you’re working – work in process.  And the front section, I got the building permits July the 8th and I’ll be through by early spring with the first – first and second phase which would be grandfathered under the building permit.  Rather than to proceed on – I wasn’t even aware that you could ask for this permit that I’m asking for.  Rather than proceed on and spend the money to have to put the rest of it in – that’s the reason I’m here asking for the vested right. Uh, but the first front section will be well completed in less than a year.”


Chairman Hawkins – “That’s less than a year but the uh – the ability of vested right is between 2 and 5 years.”


William Barnwell – “Right – uh, yeah – but in – in the back – you know it’ll take some time to fill up or get enough income coming in from the front to justify building the thang so I prefer not to do it – spend the money and not have an income at this time.”


Attorney Beeker – “If I could just clarify – you’ve pulled the building permits for the buildings shown in both Phase I and Phase II?”


William Barnwell – “Yes, I have the building permits … but I can’t – I prefer not to have to build them if I can get the vested right, then I can build them at a leisure time instead of having to go ahead and doing it.”


Attorney Beeker – “You talking about for Phase I and Phase II?”


William Barnwell – “No, I and II will be completed.”


Attorney Beeker – “Oh, Okay so you’re talking about just phase III.”


William Barnwell – “Yeah and I have the building permits for Phase III but I – then I found out I could get – ask for this vested right so I’m asking for it rather than to have to go ahead and do with the building permit.”


Attorney Beeker – “If he has building per – everything that he has a building permit for is vested, as a matter of law. Uh so his Phase I and Phase II, assuming he keeps his building permits valid, are vested.  So it would be a moot point to – unless he wanted to go ahead and get this in case his building permits did expire for Phase I and II but I believe he’s saying he doesn’t wish to do that.”


Chairman Hawkins – “He also said that he had building permits for the uh buildings on Phase III which would make the whole”


Attorney Beeker – “That’s correct but if – if he lets the building permits expire for Phase III then he would no longer be vested and I think what he’s saying – he wants to have double protection on Phase III.  Is that – that correct?”


William Barnwell – “Right”


Attorney Beeker – “Karen, how was this advertised?”


Karen Smith – “It – it was advertised for the full 5.whatever acres uh that the entire property as shown here including the house and that .139 acre piece I believe - it may not include that but it was advertised for the whole thing, 10 buildings.  There’s a copy of the ad in the packet.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “That raises the issue of the validity of the application because the adjoining property owners believed that this whole thing is – is what this hearing is about.”


Attorney Beeker – “Uh huh.”


William Barnwell – “I might – I would be happy to work with the property owners and address any questions that they’ve got, that’s”


Chairman Hawkins – “If we get on with the hearing we’ll be able to address that when we get in it but I think the question we gotta ponder right now is uh – uh is under – on what grounds the Board can proceed with the vested rights hearing in accordance with how it was advertised and – and what options we have.  We’ll have to – we’ll have to let our county attorney give us some advice on that.”


Attorney Beeker – “Well I guess with regard to the notice – it’s a question of prejudice and would somebody be prejudiced by the fact that it was advertised for the whole thing as opposed to the smaller piece uh”


Commissioner Moyer – “General rule - I always felt if you scaled it down, you don’t have a problem.”


Attorney Beeker – “That’s what I’m thinking too.”


Commissioner Moyer – “If you go up, you’re out – you’re done.”


Attorney Beeker – “If it were reversed, I think we would.  Uh I guess it begs the question of – also I guess standing to participate too.  I think that from my perspective I agree with what Commissioner Moyer is saying – that because people got notified of a potential bigger project which would have you know a potential larger impact, they believed they were going to be able to influence something or have input on something much larger and it turns out it’s gonna be smaller than uh – or that the vested rights gonna be smaller – then I believe that they wouldn’t be prejudiced by it because the people who didn’t come weren’t concerned with the whole thing so they would likely not be concerned with the smaller one either, if that makes sense. So”


Chairman Hawkins – “Well from what – from what you’ve told us also the Phase I and Phase II is really not an applicable question for vested rights.  By North Carolina law when drawing the permit it’s already.”


Attorney Beeker – “Right”


Chairman Hawkins – “As well as Phase III which the permits is already drawn. The only real question that then the Board will be dealing with was – would be the additional amount of time – a year – between two and five years that the Board might or might not allow for development of Phase III.  Then that would be the only – the only real question that”


Commissioner Moyer – “But except Grady, he’s indicated he may let the building permits lapse.”


Chairman Hawkins – “But – and that’s why I say – that would be the only question that we’d be dealing with because otherwise the entire project is already vested under North Carolina law by having drawn the building permits.”


Commissioner Messer – “But how much work would be have to do for them to be vested, Angie?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “He – he is vested.”


Attorney Beeker – “For one and two, as long as those building – as long as he is satisfying the “


Commissioner Messer – “Well how about three?”


Attorney Beeker – “For three?”


Commissioner Messer – “Say if he pours the footers next summer and then – and then doesn’t work on it for another six months, and then he comes back and does a little bit more work – you know.”


Attorney Beeker – “He has to satisfy the building inspection department on that as far as whether they feel like he’s abandoned it or if he’s still in progress or whatever – that’s a judgement call that they would make on Phase III.  Um – so – and Phase I and Phase II but it’s at his own risk if he doesn’t ask for this for Phase I and Phase II. So um – there’s”


Chairman Hawkins – “Do you see any particular problems with the Board accepting the change to the applicant and considering a vested rights for only Phase III?”


Attorney Beeker – “I’m sorry, I was reading the statute.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Oh, well go ahead.”


Attorney Beeker – “Go ahead”


Chairman Hawkins – “The question I have is in as much as Phase I and Phase II is not really applicable to vested rights according to his plan anyway, is there any particular legal problem if the Board accepts his changed application – amendment to application to have his request only for vested right on Phase III?”


Attorney Beeiker – “I – I don’t believe so because it’s scaling the project – well it’s scaling his request back.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Is the Board comfortable with that?”


Karen Smith – “Could I just add something?  There may be some questions of some of the uses that he may want to make of the property in Phases I and II, particularly in and around the uh office building and so I just want to make sure he understands that if he is giving up his application for Phases I and II that he probably will not have vested rights for some of those additional uses.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Mr. Barnwell, do you understand that?”


William Barnwell – “Well I kinda do but – the only thing I would like to do more on the property would be like rent U-Haul trucks, sell boxes and locks as a service to the customers, not looking at any car lots or nothing like that.”


Attorney Beeker – “The storage of uh U-Hauls or something like that – it’s the buildings that are vested with the building permit”


William Barnwell – “Uh huh, right”


Attorney Beeker – “So uh if you wanted to expand it to store RVs or something like that, that wouldn’t necessarily be vested if you don’t proceed with your whole application. It’s uh – you know it’s your – I think that’s what Karen’s saying.  The buildings are – are vested.  Let me – I want to read that statute too.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Take just a minute to read that and we’ll wait for you.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Grady, if we only do III, we better have Angie or somebody explain to the audience very carefully why I and II is vested or I think they’re going to be very confused as to why they’ll not have a say in I and II and believe we’re cutting them out.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Well and actually III also cause he’s got the building permits for III.  He could leave right now and build it within a year no matter what we – we’ll try to explain it.”


Ms. Beeker was reading the statute.  Several commissioners were talking but more than one was talking at a time and they weren’t using the mics.


Attorney Beeker – “OK it would just be with the building permit – the buildings that would be vested. OK?”


William Barnwell – “And I would like to be able to store boats and campers and such as that.”


Attorney Beeker – “You would?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah.”


Commissioner Messer – “So you’re asking for additional uses beyond storage facility? Is that”


William Barnwell – “Well if it’s”


Attorney Beeker – “Are you talking about in the buildings? Store boats?”


William Barnwell – “No”


Attorney Beeker – “You’re talking about just out?”


William Barnwell – “Outside – no in Phase III.”


Attorney Beeker – “In Phase III, OK.”


William Barnwell – “Yeah, not I or II.”


Attorney Beeker – “OK, then we’re OK.”


William Barnwell – “The U-Haul – I would like to be able to have U-Hauls, rentals and sell boxes and locks and packing material.”


Attorney Beeker – “On which Phase?”


William Barnwell – “In Phase I.”


Commissioner Messer – “What was that in Phase I?”


William Barnwell – “To be able to rent U-Haul trucks or you know one of the chain truck rentals, sell boxes and packing material, locks – you know as a.”


Commissioner Messer – “But those would be in a building, right?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah”


Commissioner Messer – “Yeah”


Commissioner Moyer – “Except the trucks he has to”

Attorney Beeker – “Except the trucks”


Commissioner Moyer – “He got to store the trucks right?”


Attorney Beeker – “And that’s just gonna be a timing issue on that, as far as if the property were to get rezoned and you are already doing that versus you hadn’t started doing that yet.”


William Barnwell – “Right”


Attorney Beeker – “And you understand all that”


William Barnwell – “Yeah, I just don’t know when you’re gonna zone it – and if it was zoned any kind of commercial I’d be able to do it I would say – just about any commercial out there but”


Chairman – “OK, so – so you want to amend your application to look for vested rights only in Phase III, am I – or do you want the whole deal?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah that’s – and then just however the zoning comes out is what I’ll have to live with there.”


Attorney Beeker – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, uh and you think we have no legal problem with just looking at Phase III for the vested right?”


Attorney Beeker – “I’m comfortable with it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK”


Attorney Beeker – “I mean it doesn’t stop somebody else from trying to challenge you later. But I mean you could – the only other choice you have would be to stop it and readvertise and start from scratch and I don’t think people are prejudiced by the fact that it’s going from three phases to one phase that they’re having the vested right on.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “Let me uh – for those of you that are parties let me see if I can explain to you what – what we’re talking about here and our attorney will correct me if I get – if I get too far off.  Can you hear me back there sir? Then we’re OK, OK.  What Mr. Barnwell has stated is that as we sit here today he has secured the required building permits for all three phases of the project, OK.  Under North Carolina law which is a state law, once you have acquired a building permit as long as you keep it current then you are vested to do whatever the building permit is for, OK?  So if – if the Board did nothing else tonight he would have the – whatever amount of time’s allotted on the building permit to finish all three phases.  Therefore, what he has indicated is that he is going to finish phase I and II and that – that won’t be a question but he would like a vested right.  He’s asking the Board then for a vested right for phase III which would allow him the additional time that’s allowed under the vested right code, which is between two and five years, to finish phase III.  So I- I hope that’s pretty close.”


Attorney Beeker – “That’s right”


Chairman Hawkins – “Pretty close to what we’re looking for so uh if it’s the – if it’s the consensus of the Board then we’ll amend his application to look at vested rights for phase III and then we’ll proceed with the proceedings.”


Commissioner Moyer – “You might want to see if any of the parties do not want to continue to participate now that it’s only phase III.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Well – yeah we could do that now or they’d have a chance when we call them.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Yeah”


Chairman Hawkins – “If they don’t want.”


Attorney Beeker – “Does everybody understand that?”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Then Karen you can – you can try to tailor your remarks as applicable.  It did leave some questions that I’ll have for”


Karen Smith – “And – and I have – yeah”


Chairman Hawkins – “For staff on some of the other things as pointed out but if you want to go ahead with your overview.”


Karen Smith – “OK, uh attachment 4 in your packet shows that the subject property is zoned open use, also referred to as O.U. The O.U. district allows all of the elements of the proposed storage facility that are shown on the site plan by right, without a zoning permit being issued by t he county.  One of the reasons we’re here tonight – if you’ll look at attachment 5 – and Mr. Barnwell referred to it, is because the county planning board is working on a study of the US #25 North area which may result in zoning changes for the study area.  The subject property is located within that study area boundary shown on attachment 5.  The applicant is requesting a vested right in order to be able to complete the project according to the site plan in the event the zoning of the property changes.  Uh I did want to – it’s really more for the other parties sake, just talk a little bit about the Vested Rights Ordinance and in their packets is attachment (and yours) – attachment 6.  It’s the County Code, Chapter 189 which implements the provisions of a state statute which is North Carolina General Statute 153A-344.1 which provides the ability for a land owner to establish a vested right for a project through the approval or conditional approval of a site specific development plan.  Generally a vested right would allow uh a developer to continue with (or landowner) to continue with a project and their plans regardless of whether there is a change in zoning that could affect such development.  In order to establish the vested right under this ordinance, the owner has to submit an application, a fee, and a site specific development plan to my department and then the Board of Commissioners has to hold a public hearing within 45 days of submittal of the application and if the Board will recall, when you set the hearing Mr. Barnwell had waived the 45 day requirement on the holding of this hearing.  According to the Vested Rights Ordinance, within 30 days of the completion of the hearing is – as Chairman Hawkins stated, the Board must approve, conditionally approve, or deny the vested right based upon the need to protect public health, safety, and welfare.  Again Chairman Hawkins mentioned that a vested right is valid for 2 years unless terminated or otherwise provided and those are spelled out in the ordinance.  The Board can grant up to a 5 year vested right depending on the nature of the project.  The applicant did not specify in the application materials the proposed term of the vested right although he has discussed it with staff and I expect that he’ll present that to you in a few moments.  And I just also wanted to note that just because somebody receives a vested right under chapter 189 it does not mean that they have the ability to avoid other permit processes.  They still have to comply with other state, local, and federal laws. 


Just for the record I wanted to review the – we have advertised tonight’s hearing in accordance with chapter 189 and the Board’s Rules of Procedure for Quasi-Judicial Proceedings.  Notices of tonight’s hearing were published as legal ads in the Hendersonville Times-News on September 30, October 7, excuse me October 2, October 7, and October 9, 2004 according to chapter 189 and on October 2 our department sent notice of the hearing via certified mail to the applicant and that’s in accordance with your Rules of Procedure.  While no other mail notice is required under either 189 – chapter 189 or your Rules of Procedure, we did send notices via certified mail to the owners of property in an area adjacent to the subject property.  As noted in the cover memo on your packets, I did ask – ask other agencies that we typically communicate with on subdivisions and other applications to offer comments on the application materials and my memo to such agencies is in the packet and you did receive some comments back and I did not receive any additional comments beyond what you have.  Due to the Quasi-Judicial nature of the hearing, I’ll present my comments uh later on in the proceeding.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, Karen I had a couple of questions for you and then – then we’ll take questions for your overview from any of the parties or any other Board members.  In the comments from the Fire Marshal, he addressed fire hydrants and access roads.  Uh I found one fire hydrant on the uh – on the map there it’s just below where it says ‘Asheville Highway’ and I – I didn’t know if that satisfied the requirement and I wasn’t sure what the access road requirement was.”


Karen Smith – “I believe the Fire Marshal and Mr. Barnwell have consulted with each other on the requirements and so he could probably better address that than I.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, I’ll – I’ll hold that question then.  And the other thing dealt with access to the highway from DOT and there – I think there’s already an access off of – of the Asheville Highway.  Does that mean is there another requirement?


Karen Smith – “Apparently they have to obtain a driveway permit from DOT, I believe because of the change in use and probably because of the change in configuration of the highway.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Anyone else have any questions on uh Ms. Smith’s overview, Board or any of the parties? OK, thank you Karen.”


Karen Smith – “Thank you.”


Chairman Hawkins – “We’ll take the applicants evidence at this time.  Mr. Barnwell, if you want to – or Mr. Patterson – whoever’s gonna make your presentation.”


William Barnwell – “I think she’s pretty well said what they are to say and just asking for the right to – for the five years is what I’m asking for.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  What – what about the road access.  Is that something that you have to work out with DOT?”

William Barnwell – “I talked to a couple of DOT officers, I guess, whatever they are out there and in their map where they came along and bought right-of-ways and all in there.  It shows a 50 foot uh right-of-way between the office and the buildings there and then down below that it shows – now this is on the DOT map and it shows a 20 down below – down below the 50, which I’m not gonna use the 20 but I would use the 50.  There was a couple of em out there this week that I was talking to.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Do you – do you anticipate any uh access off of asphalt drive or over on uh Ferenvilla Drive?”


William Barnwell – “The only access would be for – for the house, the existing house there.  And uh the customers – well not just the customers, including myself, I will not be able to go from – I could walk through.  I’m gonna put a five foot drive through uh gate to get a golf cart through it.  Uh and that’s for my manager to live in the house.”


Chairman Hawkins – “So the only real access to it’s gonna be off the Asheville Highway?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah.”   


Multiple people talking, I could not make out what they were saying.”


Chairman Hawkins – “To the – to the three phases.”


William Barnwell – “Oh yeah, to the three phases, yes that’s the only access to it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “So it’s only that – that area that you would need access from.  Uh the fire hydrant – the fire question is that – how was that resolved?”


William Barnwell – “Uh Hyder hadn’t said nothing about the fire hydrant.  There’s – they’re gonna put a whole new line through there and I think there’s a fire hydrant pretty close up there on Ferenvilla Drive.”


Someone in the audience –“There’s a fire hydrant on Ferenvilla.”


William Barnwell – “Yeah”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK”


Same person from the audience – “Over by building G”


William Barnwell – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK so.  Any – any Board Members have any questions then of the applicant?”


Commissioner Messer – “Mr. Barnwell, you were talking about a gate?  Is the area – is the whole area gonna be fenced?”


William Barnwell – “The whole area.  There’ll be a – the area right at the office will be open in that area where the people can pull in and then the climate control - where the climate control buildings are is where there’ll be a gate to get inside the facility there.”

Commissioner Messer – “How bout the lighting?”


William Barnwell – “Well have you – maybe some of y’all have passed by there – when I bought the property uh I had the uh Duke Power install five right strong lights shining into the property so what was put in it wouldn’t be nothing shining out from it.  It would be shining from building to building so there wouldn’t be nothing that would uh affect the highway or the neighbors on that - outside of what’s already there.”


Someone in the audience – “No it does”


William Barnwell – “Oh, OK”


Same person in the audience – “It shines in my living room”


William Barnwell – “Augh Oh”


Attorney Beeker – “The five lights are already there?”


William Barnwell – “Yes, uh huh.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any – any other questions of the Board?”


William Barnwell – “I had to sign a three year contract to get them to put out so”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK now we can – we can ask for questions from the applicants now but let me just remind you to keep your questions pertinent to what has been presented.  You’ll have an opportunity to present your evidence in just a few minutes so is – does any of the applicants have questions for Mr. Barnwell?”


Commissioner Young – “Parties.”


Attorney Beeker – “Parties yeah.”


Chairman Hawkins – “I’m sorry for the applicant”


Someone in the audience – “ … will be addressed in the comments so it should cover it.”


Someone else in the audience – “Mine will too”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  I should have said parties to the applicant instead of the applicants.  Karen, do you have any.”


Karen Smith – “I was gonna ask a procedural question, if I can. Mr. Barnwell and I have talked before the hearing.  Would it be possible for me to ask my questions as part of my evidence because what my intention is is to try to get a little bit more information into the record about what his plans are because there wasn’t a whole lot accompanying the plans and that sort of thing.  Can I save that for my evidence or should I try to do that now under questions and that sort of thing?”


Chairman Hawkins – “I – I think either way as long as you get it in the record.  If you’re comfortable with doing it now I’d just go ahead and put it in now.”


Karen Smith – “Do it now.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah”


Karen Smith – “OK.  If you’ll give us a moment then um I’m gonna have Anthony pass and I’ll pass around”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK”


Karen Smith – “My”


Staff distributed information.  There was some conversation that was not pertinent to the hearing as information was distributed.


Karen Smith – “OK maybe if Mr. Barnwell comes up we can tag team this and get through it. Do you want me to skip my recommendations though – if they – if they’re entwined in the question and just save that for evidence?”

Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah, give us just a second to look these over and then we’ll start with uh”


Karen Smith – “OK”


The Commissioners were reviewing the information.


Chairman Hawkins – “Looks like the Planning Board’s already got it zoned over there. (laughing) Looking at the list of questions here, looks like you all are in another spot. OK, let’s – I think everybody’s had a chance to look those over if you wanna go through some of those.”


Karen Smith – “OK and again bear with me. I’m gonna have to modify some of them based on the change tonight uh having to do with the site specific development plan which you have in your packets and which are also on these boards uh.  I just wanted to see if there’s anything else that the applicant wanted to note in terms of uh location of infrastructure, water, sewer, roads, bike paths, pedestrian walkways for phase III that is not already shown on the site specific development plan.”


William Barnwell – “Just the driveways is all I plan to put in there, walkways and no such thing”


Karen Smith – “OK uh also with the site specific development plan uh, well these are all phase I questions I guess.  He did answer Mr. Messer about the security fencing and lighting and the rear gate at Ferenvilla uh those improvements are not shown on the site plan and at the end of this I’ll – my recommendation is gonna be that they be shown on a revised site plan if they apply to phase III.  Uh will there be any signage in that portion of phase III?”


William Barnwell – “No”


Karen Smith – “Uh I just wanted to clarify uh that the .7 plus or minus acre tract shown with the brick house will not be part of phase III vested right?”

William Barnwell – “No”


Karen Smith – “OK, nor with the .139 acre triangle that’s to the south of the property?”


William Barnwell – “No”


Karen Smith – “OK.  Uh these are just two – well again I  guess that they.  One change on the site plan that is needed is to the name of the owner, it is WFWA uh so if there is a revised site plan that would be one thing.  It is WFWA, correct?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah, P.I. Storage is”


Karen Smith – “P.I. Storage, OK. Uh”


Chairman Hawkins – “And what you have – WAWF?”


Karen Smith – “On the site plan it has WAWF, right”


Attorney Beeker – “And the application also.”


Karen Smith – “Yes but I advertise it the way it is.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Dyslexia is a bad problem (laughing).”


Karen Smith – “Uh Ok.  I don’t think #5.  He’s addressed the access uh, will there be any parking provided for employees, customers, maintenance vehicles and that sort of thing in phase III?”


William Barnwell – “Really no.”


Karen Smith – “The Board can, as I mentioned, approve or disapprove a plan based on the need to protect public health, safety, and welfare and you can require terms and conditions on the vested right to – in order to protect such and so I did have some other questions that the Board might want to consider in terms of the vested right and the applicant may have addressed some of these items already.  He addressed A- 6A which is the status of the building permits. Uh in phase III uh is it possible that there will be vehicles, boats, recreational vehicles and the like stored in that area and if so how many do you – would you expect, that sort of thing.”


William Barnwell – “If I don’t build phase III I would use it for camper, boat, RV storage.  I really plan to build it if you all will help me out on this thing you know.”


Karen Smith – “I guess what I’m getting at is – can you have an either or built into the vested right?”


Attorney Beeker – “OK, just to make it clear – that’s what you’re asking for – to either park vehicles or build the buildings shown?  I mean, that’s for the Board to answer.  I’m just clarifying the question.”


Commissioner Moyer – “It’s not possible that you’ll build phase III and also want to do some storage of”


William Barnwell – “It would be very little RV storage if that’s – if the project does well I prefer to have everything on the inside of the buildings- and that’s the way the other facilities I have - I don’t have … I prefer not to cause you don’t want to leave …”


Karen Smith – “Would – would – so it’s hard for you to determine exactly the square footage that would be devoted to that but it might – it would be somewhere within phase III?”


William Barnwell – “Yes”


Karen Smith – “Are you going to establish regular hours of operation for the facility and if so will the clients have access to the facility outside of the regular business hours.”


William Barnwell – “In my authority as now I am a part owner in the one on 25 South and we’re open from seven in the morning till nine at night and on daylight savings it’s from seven to eight.  I’m gonna have gates put in for 24 hour access but I’m not gonna let people in there late at night. I just – I don’t like it.  That’s a personal thing with me I guess.  A lot of people do like the 24 hour access but I just don’t plan …”


Karen Smith – “So you’re saying you would use the same hours of operation?”


William Barnwell – “The same hours of operation.”


Charlie Messer – “Karen, I’ve got a question on that uh – OK how would you control that? I mean if you’ve got access 24 hours and somebody wants to go in there.”


William Barnwell – “You do it with a computer.  You put your timers on a computer and say after nine o’clock at night nobody can go in.  You can’t go in till after seven in the morning.”


Commissioner Moyer – “So they put their card in and nothing happens?”


William Barnwell – “That’ what it’s like.”


Karen Smith – “OK we uh talked about the truck rentals so that’s not gonna be applicable to phase III, OK.  Uh are there any setbacks that you propose from neighboring property lines or will the project be built pretty much as shown here?”


William Barnwell – “Pretty much as shown.  Probably 20 foot set backs.  I don’t know what your – that’s an R-20 so a 20 foot set back would meet the – if and when it gets zoned it would meet the zoning.”


Karen Smith – “Would you apply the same to uh – if you park RVs and boats and that sort of thing?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah I would.  That’s reasonable. You know.”


Karen Smith – “OK uh do you expect that the  project is gonna generate any potentially negative impacts on the surrounding area such as those related to noise, lighting, visibility of the project from neighboring properties and if so do you intend to propose any buffering, landscaping, or other methods to minimize such impacts?”


William Barnwell – “What I have proposed to do along the uh boundary is plant (moved to site plan) down here what I would propose to do is have …  (I could not make out what he was saying on the tape).”


Chairman Hawkins – “That’s on Francis Zuiderhoff’s boundary?”


I could not hear a reply.


Karen Smith – “Are you proposing any measures to minimize potential impacts of the project, particularly from stormwater runoff on the uh – I think now it would just impact one tributary to Mud Creek such as vegetative buffers?”


William Barnwell – “Uh not a whole lot of vegetation … I put all the water into one area and you know … (there was a lot of static).”


Karen Smith – “You do have some grass planted though along the stream banks.”


William Barnwell – “Yes I have some, yes”


Chairman Hawkins – “Karen, where is the stream you’re talking about?”


Karen Smith – “If Anthony can point out – you see the – the 36” CNP, it’s a culvert to there and then it goes into the stream into phase II, pretty much”


William Barnwell – ? something was said about the culvert ?


Karen Smith – “Yeah, there’s just a little portion of the actual stream in phase III and then it’s culverted.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “So phase II is completely culverted?”


Karen Smith – “Phase II is actual stream”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Karen Smith – “And then as you’re looking into phase III it’s part stream and then the 36” culvert starts as you move uh west.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And so you’re proposing that the stormwater would go directly into the stream from the pavement? Did I understand that correctly?”


William Barnwell – “Off the pavement and into the stream”


Karen Smith – “Uh are you gonna regulate the types of materials that customers will be allowed to store as well as the manner in which storage units and other portions of the property can be used by customers?”


William Barnwell – “Yes, we’ll … standard – pretty well standard contract.  Can’t store hazardous  materials, gasoline, such as that, anything that could cause a fire.”


Karen Smith – “No one can live in the storage units?”

William Barnwell – “No they cannot live in them.”


Karen Smith – “Have band practice and that kind of thing?”


William Barnwell – “No, no band practice either, I’ve never allowed that in none of them so”


Karen Smith – “We’ve had calls (laughing).”


William Barnwell – “No, not at all.”


Karen Smith -  “And on I – he already talked about the packing supplies and that’s not applicable to phase III. Uh the other things I guess are uh – would you be – well you’ve asked for the five years and I think you probably need to – uh well if the Board is satisfied with the reason why you need five years, that’s fine.  If there’s anything else you’d want to add to that. Uh is there?”


William Barnwell – “Just get the business … if I can get to five years, that’s what”


Karen Smith – “Uh – uh would you be opposed to the County Zoning Administrator having access to your property during normal business hours.”


William Barnwell – “None whatsoever.”


Karen Smith – “To determine if development’s occurring?”


William Barnwell – “No …”


Karen Smith – “OK and would you be willing to submit an annual report as to the status of the development in phase III on the anniversary of the uh vested right, if granted?”


William Barnwell – “Sure, sure.”


Karen Smith – “OK.  Alright I think that’s all I have right now.”


Attorney Beeker – “Could I ask a couple of follow-up questions? The fence – how high are you proposing? Six foot? And how many acres are in phase III? Do you have any idea?”


Karen Smith – “I don’t know.”


William Barnwell – “Not really (laughing), there’s not even an acre in there.”


Attorney Beeker – “Oh, is there not?”


William Barnwell – “Not very much.”


Commissioner Messer – “5.37 is the whole thing?”


Commissioner Young – “Yeah, that’s the whole”


Attorney Beeker – “OK”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Fence material?”


Chairman Hawkins – “Double wood fence, he said”


Attorney Beeker – “He said double faced wood.”


Several people were talking at once here.


Karen Smith – “Would you be able to get that completed before you begin operation?”


William Barnwell – I could not make out his answer.


Attorney Beeker – “Are you proposing to go ahead and fence phase III as – when you fence the re – no you’re gonna fence it at – later.”


Karen Smith – “That’s what I was asking.”


Attorney Beeker – “OK.”


William Barnwell –  Mr. Barnwell is not close enough to the microphone.  I could not make out what he said here and had trouble with much of his testimony.


Chairman Hawkins – “Karen, do you have any questions?  Bill, you had some questions?”


Commissioner Moyer – “Mr. Barnwell, I’d like to say a few more words.  I realize obviously you’d like to get as long as you can but why specifically do you think this project merits having longer than two years?”


William Barnwell – “Well, I know it would be real nice if it surprised me and I just went out there and it filled up.  Uh I think it’s just gonna take awhile to – to get enough renters in there to fill it up.  There’s not – there’s a lot of people live out that a way.  There’s a whole lotta traffic out there but there’s not that many people living there so it’s gonna take a while.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Do you have any predictions that you use as to how long it will take you to fill phase I and II and where that would put you in phase III?”


William Barnwell – “Hopefully within three years, hopefully.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Is that for phase I and II?”


William Barnwell – “Sir?”


Chairman Hawkins – “Three years for phase I and II is what you estimate?”


Commissioner Moyer – “And so that would give you two years to finish phase III.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Yeah, I’ve got a couple. Ingress and egress to phase III is gonna come across phase I and II?”


William Barnwell – “Yes”


Commissioner Baldwin – “From – from 25?”


William Barnwell – “From 25.


Commissioner Baldwin – “Uh – uh and you did say that you’re agreeable to a 20 foot setback around the perimeter of phase III?”


William Barnwell – “Yes, uh huh.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “That would include structures as well as vehicles?”


William Barnwell – “Yes.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And lighting for phase III, what would that consist of?”


William Barnwell – “It would be lights on the buildings that reflect across the driveways.  I run into some of the same kind of problem when we built this one on 25 South and I had to go in and put a shield on the front of the light.  The light will go out the side but it won’t go out – you know straight to your neighbors.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “So is it down lighting? Is that what you’re talking about?”


William Barnwell – “No, it’s just a – well if this was your light – you know you got lights comes out the side of that same light.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


William Barnwell – “You put a shield on the front where it won’t shine straight out but you still get a lot of light out of the side of the light that goes into the median areas.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Kind of like a shade?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah, that’s what it would be, a shade.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “So you’re saying there would not be direct lighting from the light source, from the”


William Barnwell – “Right”


Chairman Hawkins – “Would that lighting be in addition to the five lights you already have out there?”

William Barnwell – “Yes, yes sir.”

Commissioner Baldwin – “Now the – the screening in between phase II and phase III.  You’re working on phase I and II now.  You’ve got or have – you’ve started construction on I and II?”

William Barnwell – “Yes.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK.  Are you proposing or not proposing a fence in between I and II until you can get to III?”


William Barnwell – “Yes”


Commissioner Baldwin – “You are proposing a fence?”


William Barnwell – “I’ll fix it where a tractor and trailer could turn around.  There’s not – oh your moving people do, some of them come in a tractor trailer, where they’d moved a long distance and I’ll fix it in that area, that space between phase II and III.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Uh huh”


William Barnwell – “Where a truck could turn around there. I’m gonna go ahead and pave it first.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “But you would have a fence that divides II and III?”


William Barnwell – “Yes”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK.  And when you do III, the fence comes down and then you continue around phase III?”


William Barnwell – “Right, uh huh.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And you said you did not propose any vegetative buffer from storm water flowing from the … into the stream?”


William Barnwell – “No … into the culverts, it will leave through the stream.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions?”


Commissioner Messer – “I guess – I guess going back to the timing matter, Mr. Barnwell. There’s not any direct competition – I mean what would you say the closest competition to this facility once it’s completed next spring.”


William Barnwell – “Well you have uh over next to Smiley’s there’s uh mini-storage there then down – it would be on the other side of the highway you go down a road and there’s mini-storage there.  There’s one on the way to Park Ridge Hospital.”


Commissioner Messer – “Oh yeah.”


William Barnwell – “Then there’s two in the Industrial Park out there. They’re all smaller – they’re a smaller facility.”

Commissioner Messer – “Do you know if any of those facilities are climate control?”


William Barnwell – “They’re not.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any other questions? OK thank you and uh – we’ll uh take staff’s evidence now.”


Karen Smith – “The other parties?”


Chairman Hawkins – “I – I had already asked them once but I’ll ask again.  Did any of the other parties have questions for applicants, just on what he’s presented.  I think they said they were gonna give their information when they were called.  OK, Karen, if you want to go ahead then with your evidence.”


Karen Smith – “Uh pretty much what I was trying to pull out of Mr. Barnwell is the additional evidence that I wanted to make sure got into the record.  Uh I guess it’s sort of a follow-up – he talked about the fencing on the uh – the wooden fencing for phase III but I believe it’s chain-link around the other pieces?”


Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah, the whole property.”


Karen Smith – “of the property – security fence, right.  Uh with regard to some of the comments then that uh Mr. Barnwell has made tonight plus the site plan and some proposed changes that need to be made uh I just wanted to see if the Board would consider adding some conditions based on his statements so that we can make sure everybody understands what he’s been granted a vested right for – so he understands and we all understand in the next two or – to five years what he can and can’t do uh under that vested right approval. Of course he can terminate that approval but if he doesn’t what we want to hold him to uh so one of the things is a revised site plan and I don’t know that the Board necessarily needs to review that again but if they could – if he could submit a revised site plan, if you grant the vested right, that conforms to uh the vested rights ordinance that you may approve for staff to review and make sure things are shown on there such as the fencing and the lighting and drainage structures and that sort of thing.”


Chairman Hawkins – “And that would just be for phase III though.”


Karen Smith – “It would now be for phase III.  Actually we probably oughta just get a revised plan just for phase III.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Uh huh.”


Karen Smith – “Show the other part as under construction or something.  Uh let’s see.  We talked about uh the duration of the vested right and the access from – by county staff and also the annual report and he seems agreeable to that so those are again things I’d like to suggest as conditions. Uh and then any other information that you may gain through evidence and perhaps rebuttal from Mr. Barnwell that comes up later – you may also want to consider as conditions.  Uh we uh would need a final site plan anyway that the Chairman signs as a result of any approval of the vested rights.  I just wanted you to be aware of that.  I did hand out, along with my memo, some copies of uh additional maps and some photographs of the property, if anyone feels like they need for me to review those I can.  Uh they are available.  I would like my memo and – and these other two sets of documents to be made part of the record but uh again since we’re only talking about phase III I don’t know how – how much detail you want to go into at this point.”


Chairman Hawkins – “They’re in color, that’s nice”

Karen Smith – “You can thank Anthony for that.”


Chairman Hawkins – “And they’ve got WFWA on em.”


Karen Smith – “And uh – just to go back to something Mr. Barnwell said, I don’t know at this point when the zoning issue will be resolved.  Right now the Planning Board’s been talking about a residential district for that area but again until it happens and they make a recommendation to you and you make a final zoning decision, that is gonna be up in the air.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Any – any questions for Karen from either.  Ms Beeker, do you have one?”


Attorney Beeker – “The uh attachment 10, is that the – that’s the letter that was sent to all the property owners and attachment 11 is the – well where’s the ad?


Karen Smith – “The ad – the actual physical ad or the copy of the ad?”


Attorney Beeker – “Copy of the ad – that’s attachment 8.  That is the ad that ran?”


Karen Smith – “Yes. Attachment 8 is the ad that ran in the paper and 9 is what we sent to Mr. Barnwell and 10 is what we sent to property owners.  I do have actual copies of the ads as they were printed if you need for me to submit a copy of one of those for the record.”


Attorney Beeker – “I guess uh in the past when someone’s asking for five years – is that something you’ve advertised? Or is that just if they specified it in their application?”


Karen Smith – “I think it’s if they specified in the application. I – I can’t really.  We’ve done three or four and I’m – I really can’t answer that for sure.”


Attorney Beeker – “That’s fine.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Do you have any more questions, Ms. Beeker.”


Attorney Beeker – “No sir.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any Board have questions for Karen?  Does any of the additional parties have questions for Ms. Smith at this time? Thank you, Karen.”


Karen Smith – “Thank you.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, at this time we’ll take additional parties’ evidence.  For those of you that have been made a party to the proceedings, if uh in whatever order you want to, if you’ll come up and take the mic and present your evidence, we’ll listen to it. And you may call witnesses if – if you so choose. Or if you’ve signed up and don’t want to come up you don’t have to but uh but now’s your chance.”


 A man from the audience - “I’ll make it simple for you.  (he distributed something)

Attorney Beeker – “Could you restate your name please.”


David Holz – “I’m David Holz, 6 Ferenvilla Drive.  On receiving my notice I received quite a few calls last week from neighbors.  We were surprised first of all to get a – a notice.  But then we did have some concerns. We were not aware of phase III but we’re generally, most of the neighbors, the 18 people – families, all property owners, all owner occupied uh are generally in favor of the project.  In fact 17 of the owners have signed this.  We’re  uh – we have some concerns and recommendations, some of them I’ve heard stated already.  That the Ferenvilla Drive boundary of the property we feel would give a commercial effect to our neighborhood.  We recommend that there would be an appropriate buffer on Ferenvilla Drive boundary, perhaps an evergreen boundary.  Uh the neighbors, especially those who look directly into that, do not want to be looking at a chain-link fence.  Right now there’s some plantings but they uh – the leaves go off those at this time of year uh so we’re recommending a evergreen uh planting, an attractive – and an attractive fencing. We’re concerned that lighting could create a nuisance for nearby properties.  We recommend a lighting system that would not be pervasive to the neighborhood.  That entry to the storage facility by customers in proposed phase III in late night and early morning hours would be disruptive to residents in close proximity  of the property.  And that there be no access from Ferenvilla Drive to the facilities by customers nor by commercial vehicles.  You just heard Mr. Barnwell and he’s told me this and I’ve had a good relationship with him and uh we’re not trying to create an adversarial relationship with him at this point either.  That the units be restricted to storage and not used for other purposes, for instance meetings, musical groups rehearsing which they have done in some we understand, or anything that would create a disturbance in the Ferenvilla neighborhood.  So that’s basically our concerns and our recommendations.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Anybody have any questions uh for”


Commissioner Moyer – Grady, I would have one.  Mr. Holz, based on what you heard the applicant say, are all of – it sounded to me like two through five are satisfied and the only one that would be open would be number one where he’s proposing a two-sided wood fence rather than an evergreen fence.  Did you hear the same thing I heard?”


David Holz – “What kind of fence did he say?”


Commissioner Young – A double faced wood fence.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Double faced wood fence.”


Chairman Hawkins – “A six foot high wooden fence.”


Commissioner Moyer – “But not an evergreen fence so there is a difference on one but it sounds to me like the other four are satisfied by what he’s committed to do already.  Is that the way you heard it?”


David Holz – “I didn’t hear that about the wooden fence.  We can’t hear everything out here but that would – it would be you know – I’m not the one that looks directly at it.  There are some here that do look directly at that property.  Of course what affects the property values of one can have a ripple effect.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “So really what – you would prefer an evergreen buffer of some kind.”


David Holz – “Yeah”


Commissioner Baldwin – “In addition to the fence.”


David Holz – “He’s got to have security, we know that.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


David Holz – “But some – something there that would give a pleasant appearance and not a stockade – you know type.  All of our property owners since I’ve lived there have made great improvements to their property. Uh they take quite a bit of pride.  We’re small but they take quite a bit of pride in their lawns, their property, they’re constantly making improvements.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Any other questions for Mr. Holz.  Any other parties or applicant have questions for Mr. Holz?  OK.  Any other parties want to present their evidence.  OK, please take the mic.”


Linda Kroll – “I’m Linda Kroll at #17 and if you stand at my front door you see phase III.  That’s – you know – I know he’s saying he put some kind of shield for the lighting it’s still gonna shine out on the side and I have two bedroom windows right there and so that really concerns me and then also there’s a fire hydrant right in front of my house there and what’s to say if they need fire, they aren’t gonna want to come through the back there onto Ferenvilla Drive to issue – you know the fire thing.  And then no one’s addressed automotive, any storage facility that I’ve been to –  somebody’s working on their race car in the facility and that would be very disruptive.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, well just – let me – let me ask uh and uh – would you put attachment two back up there and uh  - uh let me see if I can find – I see where the Zuiderhofs are but where their line ends there on the – really kind of on the corner of phase III, just the top of uh building F and the .074 acres a little to your – where – where the one story brick with partial basement house sets, kind of in the corner of it.”


Linda Kroll – “My house is right here.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK, your house is right there so – so you’re at the uh – you’d be in front of building F and G.”


Linda Kroll – “Uh huh.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Basically, OK.  OK ‘cause”


Linda Kroll – “So I’d definitely like some kind of evergreen or something so I don’t have to look at that.”


Chairman Hawkins – “What is there currently from uh from where the uh phase III cut-off line is there and the .704 acres.  Is there any – any vegetation on that uh side of the street that faces uh the highway.”


Linda Kroll – “It was all cleared away.”


Chairman Hawkins – “It’s just – it’s just clear.”


Linda Kroll – “I was assured that he’s just planting grass there and no problem ‘cause I had a big stand of bamboo out in front of my yard and it was bothering me and since once I heard that he was just planting grass there I had that all taken out, spent money and had it all removed and now that’s what I see.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Knowing bamboo, it might come back.”

Linda Kroll – “No I made sure it’s really killed, it’s guaranteed to be killed.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Did anybody have any questions for – anybody from?  OK, thank you.  Any of the other parties want to present evidence?”


Francis Zuiderhof – “I’m Mr. Zuiderhof and I’m the property that’s uh – adjacent to phase III.  Uh my hearing is not too good, I couldn’t really hear too much that was going on so I was wondering on phase III what did he say that there’s gonna be a buffer of 20 feet?”


Chairman Hawkins – “That – that’s what I heard him say as well as a wooden six foot – and a wooden fence.”


Francis Zuiderhof – “Is that – am I hearing this correctly?”


Chairman Hawkins – “That’s what I heard and I think Mr. Barnwell is shaking his head that that is correct.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “My understanding was a 20 foot set back.  I didn’t hear anything about a 20 foot buffer.”


Francis Zuiderhof – “Well a set back from his line to where a building would be – is this what you would say?”


Commissioner Young – “Yes.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “A structure and/or vehicles or storage.”


Francis Zuiderhof – “OK.  I have no complaint except I want to make sure the lighting is not intrusive.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any questions for Mr. Zuiderhof?  Thank you sir.  Are there uh any other parties evidence? Mr. Hansen.”


Robert Hansen – “I’m Mr. Hansen.  I just really have some questions, more for – just for clarification.  Since the application has been uh reduced to phase III as opposed to the balance of the property uh is maybe inappropriate so if I – if I’m out of order please tell me but on phase I and II which is basically right in front of my house uh, Mr. Barnwell is there going to be any – are you planning fencing in that area?”


Someone was talking but I could not tell what they were saying.


Attorney Beeker – “Could you come to the mic so the tape can pick you up please. And repeat what you just said.”


William Barnwell – “I plan to fence from here – I plan to fence from building D over to the property line – where the – over to the – toward the house, the existing house on the property and then go around like this.”


Robert Hansen – “So the fence will be from here across”


William Barnwell – “In other words, there’ll be no access back here.”


Commissioner Moyer – “It makes a tough record.”

Several people were talking but were not using the mic and I couldn’t tell what they were saying.


Chairman Hawkins – “OK I think – I think what you’re saying is that uh basically you’re uh perimeter fence is a chain-link fence is more or less gonna follow the Airport Drive Road back to your – where the house is already located? Back to that area?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Does that answer your question Mr. Hansen?”


Robert Hansen – “Yes it does.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK”


Robert Hansen – “One other consideration that I would like to ask – again this is on – on those two phases so. I have planted some buffered – green buffering which I did there before he even acquired the property uh with our recent storms I’ve had some damage to that and it would be very helpful to me if he could put some additional buffering on his land to aid if – as prop – vegetation may be damaged on one side or the other.  I can’t put anymore where I have so if there could be some buffering in that area and then the only other thing I really have a concern on is uh – that’s directly related to it is that we do currently have light – those big lights that he has out in front do shine into our living room which is not a major problem but it would be nicer if they were fixed so that they did not. Uh my degree of concern with this project is – is bolstered some by the fact that there is planned changing in the zoning out there. Currently my property, as this property, is under open use which of course means that if this facility is uh detracting from it being a residential property I have the ability to convert it to a commercial use.  Under the proposed zoning, my property as well as this property is identified as being zoned R-15 which uh with this facility next to me will be very damaging to my property if that zone so uh you can – if the Planning Board does not make a recommendation for a change in the zoning on my property when the hearing is held on that, I will be here. Thank you.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Mr. Hansen, uh before you leave, you said you had some buffers already on – I guess on the north side of the asphalt drive?”


Robert Hansen – “Yeah if you – if you’ll look at the picture that the staff had, which I had here a minute ago. OK uh I planted some Leland Cypress uh right along the driveway and uh it’s on – yeah it’s really more of the”


Commissioner Young – “Right above that retaining wall?”


Robert Hansen – “Right, it’s uh – it’s stated as facing north, it’s really more facing uh west.  We face east. The sun comes up in our window so.  But I planted that row of trees.  There were some pines that died and so I had what was left removed and put that in there just because I felt like it made my property a little more attractive but as I said with the Francis and Ivan storms had some of those trees somewhat damaged and I’ve tried to prop them up.  Hopefully they’ll take hold and go again but uh.”


Commissioner Moyer – “When did you plant those Mr. Hansen?”


Robert Hansen – “It’s been about what 2 or 3 years ago.  Three years ago.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Man.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “I’ve got a question for the property – your property that adjoins – does it – are you talking about the piece that joins phase II? I and II.”


Robert Hansen – “I and II right.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “I and II”


Robert Hansen – “Which I know is outside of what his request is”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any – any other questions for Mr. Hansen from the Board?  Any one?”


Attorney Beeker – “Mr. Chairman uh when he’s finished if Mr. Barnwell could come and take a highlighter and draw on this map that’s up where – exactly where the fencing is gonna go so we’d have a clear record, it would be helpful.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.  Is there any other parties that wants to give evidence or call witnesses?  OK, Mr. Barnwell, if you would uh on this map please just indicate with a yellow marker the fence you talked about with Mr. Hansen – the location of it so we’d have it for our record.  It was a little bit hard to hear. Or on one of the maps you’ve got, just so we can”


Mr. Hansen was marking on the map with a highlighter.  There was talking but it was not pertinent to the hearing.


Chairman Hawkins – “If you would present that to the Clerk, Mr. Barnwell, so it’ll be a part of our record. If you’ll present that to the Clerk, we’ll make it a part of the record.”


Attorney Beeker - “Would you say that into the tape for the record?”


William Barnwell – “The red line on there would the – a double faced wood fence and then the yellow one would be a – which I’m gonna put up a black chain-link fence and then I join in Mr. Hansen – there’s no fence there but my customers are locked off from going from in the facility to his location.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Did you get all the information you need for that map?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “The red indicates the double faced wood? And the yellow the black chain-link?”


Commissioner Young – “Are you planning on putting any like Leland Cypress down the outside of the chain-link or the wood fence?”


William Barnwell – “No I haven’t.  The trees around the facility – I think you have a picture of it - is on property that I own for the most part … a couple streams along the back property line and it’s wooded – that’s the way it is.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Mr. Barnwell, let me ask you how – how much fencing more would be required to go from where you showed it ending there at the culvert on up to the – to the corner of phase III? Do you have – either you or Mr. Patterson have an idea of how many more feet that’d – basically up by building G and F.”


William Barnwell – “About 600 feet I think.”


Chairman Hawkins – “More? You already have the double fence up to the uh – where the culvert goes through and I’m wondering from the bend in the road there on up to the top of where phase III actually adjoins the one story brick house, how much – how much more would it take to fence it all the way up to there?”


William Barnwell – “I – I plan just to put a fence across – well it’s a little further up where it says phase III.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Uh huh”


William Barnwell – “And just to fence in that parking lot at this time and fence the total back of the property would be fenced off separate till I’m ready to build, then I’d take that fence down and …”


Chairman Hawkins – “And – and move it back to where?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah at that point you’d go ahead and fence in the whole back yard.”


Chairman Hawkins – “With a double – with the wooden fence?”


William Barnwell – “Well with wooden and uh – and the black”


Chairman Hawkins – “And the black chain-link fence – you’d need both of them there. OK”

Commissioner Baldwin – “So – so the wooden is not for security, it’s purely aesthetics, right?”


Commissioner Young – “Yeah”


William Barnwell – “Aesthetic and help keep the neighbors happy and – well it’s secure too – it’s a little hard to get across one of those things.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK.”


William Barnwell – “Yeah it’s six foot and then you get it off the ground another few inches so it’s – it’s not one that I could look over.  Mr. Hansen could look over it. He’s a rather tall gentleman.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Is that – thank you Mr. Barnwell.  Does anyone have any rebuttal evidence?”


Commissioner Moyer – “I would ask – you know where we keep.  I’d like to ask Mr. Barnwell whether – have you – would you be willing to consider putting an evergreen buffer in there where they have – I mean that – you’ve satisfied almost all the conditions other than that concern and maybe the lighting which but that sounds like the big issue that you’re gonna have a wooden fence facing Ferenvilla Drive at a place where it will affect people’s houses.”


William Barnwell – “Well to get to the house up there – you’d have to go out and see the property to understand – it’s better to do it the way that I’m proposing to do it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “As far as the uh wooden fence on that portion of it?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah the wooden fence – that would keep Mr. Zuiderhof – it’d keep him happy uh you know it would look nice – her too.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Bill are you talking about the – over on Mr. Hansen’s side – on the north side or are you talking about at Ferenvilla ‘cause”


Commissioner Moyer – “I think the same place you’re talking – the Ferenvilla between the edge of Mr. Zuiderhof and”


Several people were talking at once here.  I could not tell who was saying what.


Chairman Hawkins – “Well as I understood him, he was gonna – when he moved this fence from the phase II back there that was gonna go – to continue that on up there was what I understood him to say. So that that would be entirely fenced when phase III”


William Barnwell – “Yeah the whole place would be fenced in”


Chairman Hawkins – “That wooden fence all the way up to phase III”


William Barnwell – “Yeah the only access even from phase III – where you have to go back to 25 to get in and out of there.”


Attorney Beeker – I think the confusion is that the red line that you drew”


William Barnwell – “Yeah”


Attorney Beeker – “For the wood fence doesn’t go along the entire western boundary. It stops at the culvert and so in the future are you gonna extend the wood fence along the entire western boundary of phase III?”


William Barnwell – “I would prefer to go with a chain-link on account of the – it’s going up – up grade and it’s really not very easy to put in a wood fence and make it look right.”


Chairman Hawkins – “What about Leland or other vegetation?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Yeah on your – on your western boundary”


Chairman Hawkins – “For that little portion”


William Barnwell – “Uh huh”


Commissioner Moyer – “About 140 feet that I wood at it – 150 feet. “Cause the people right across from that will be looking right into a chain-link”


Several people were talking.


William Barnwell – “I can – I can put a board fence.  It can be done.”


Commissioner Young – “Well what about just putting – they wanted uh evergreen. What about putting Leland Cypress outside of the chain-link fence and let it make a hedge?”


Chairman Hawkins – “Would that be easier than a board – if it’s – if it’s got a lot of angle on it or?”


William Barnwell – “Well I could put trees, some kind of evergreen tree there and then just go with a chain-link fence.”

Chairman Hawkins – “OK, are you willing to do that?”


Commissioner Moyer – “That would I think work for me.”


William Barnwell – “OK I could do that, that’s no problem.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK. Any other questions for Mr. Barnwell?  Rebuttal evidence – we didn’t have any. Anyone?  Yes sir.”


Some man from the audience – “I just - would like to – to uh emphasize that 143 foot boundary on Ferenvilla Drive – the, plant it so that it’s attractive. I think that’s all we’re asking. I think the nature of that agreement – ‘cause that’s what we look at and the neighbors look at and uh if it’s property landscaped with evergreen. There’s some beautiful burning bush there now but in another month it won’t have anything on it at all and uh – and uh especially where the opening where the driveway cut is now  has a big gap there and uh – and uh I think he’s covered that we just would like to have some assurance that that’s gonna have an attractive view from that side.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Alright, any – any other questions?”


Commissioner Moyer – “Well would Mr. Barnwell agree to that as a condition?”


William Barnwell – “The 143 feet, no I don’t want no fence there.  That goes straight into the house.”


Chairman Hawkins – “No that – that’s up beyond where phase III cuts off.  That’s not where we’re talking about.”


William Barnwell – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “That – that .704 acres – we’ve not had any discussion on any – anything in that.”


Too many people were talking.


Chairman Hawkins – “We’re – we’re looking at that strip between where the culvert is up to where the north side of building F is and – and I think what this gentleman was saying is that uh and you’re saying that you’ll have a – a security black chain-link fence in there anyway and that you’re willing to put Cypress attractively landscaped in that area.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And that’s – that’s the one that’s 406 feet?”


Several people were talking.


Chairman Hawkins – “No it’s not that far from the culvert on up is about 140 feet.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “And the double – the wooden fence is gonna be from there on down to the corner.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK. OK let’s see where am I.”


William Barnwell – “For security right here, this – I can kinda fence this off or board fence – this goes straight up a hill.  There’s no point – I’ll never go up the hill- it’ll just be there.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah but the double face fence is basically gonna be along those three buildings there and then it picks up the vegetation buffer, OK.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Do you think it would help if we put like A, B, C and we say between points A and B?”


Attorney Beeker – “Very, I do”


Commissioner Moyer – “Cause I think we don’t want any confusion on this.”


Attorney Beeker – “Right and”


Commissioner Moyer – “I handed it back Grady.”


Attorney Beeker – “There’s no – nothing being considered as far as along the southern boundary of the house property, right?”


Commissioner Moyer – “Right”


Chairman Hawkins – “That’s right”


Attorney Beeker – “No – no buffering.  There’s a fence along that southern boundary isn’t there?”


Chairman Hawkins – “Yeah, there will be”


Attorney Beeker – “Right”


Commissioner Moyer – “Why don’t you take that or Karen and put A, B, and C on there and we’ll agree what goes between A and B and B and C so there’s no question.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And I may have missed this but for your boundary that runs northeast all you’re proposing there is uh on phase III down at the bottom”


William Barnwell – “OK”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Keep going down. Yeah, it runs northeast.”


William Barnwell – “This area?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Up, yep there you go.  And all you’re proposing there is a chain-link fence?”


William Barnwell – “Yes”


Commissioner Baldwin – “What’s – what’s the topography like there?”


William Barnwell – ‘It’s straight up a bank, just like that.  I’d have to put that at the bottom.”


Commissioner Young – “There’s not any houses that adjoins that right there are there?”


Chairman Hawkins – “I don’t think so.”


William Barnwell – “Yeah there’s residences in there.”


Attorney Beeker – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “Did that answer your question?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “So this – so there is a residence, its Sheets and Franks – well it’s really just the Sheets property.”


Commissioner Young – “From what I’m hearing, the residents say that uh the chain-link fence they want it obscured with some evergreen type bushes so they’re not looking at a chain-link fence like a”


Attorney Beeker – “If we could clarify for the record – as to points A and B that’s just gonna be chain-link fence?”


William Barnwell – “Chain-link fence, uh huh.”


Attorney Beeker – “B to C is gonna be chain-link plus evergreen, I meant just Leland Cypress.?.”


William Barnwell – “Right”


Attorney Beeker – “C to D will be the double faced wood?”


William Barnwell – “Let’s cut that off at this point right here, ‘cause that’s straight up a – I mean that’s. I haven’t been up there and don’t intend to walk up there …”


Attorney Beeker – “OK, now between C & D?”

William Barnwell – “And let the fence come this way and that can be no man’s land there forever.”


Chairman Hawkins – “All three phases are gonna be surrounded by a chain-link fence just for security.”


William Barnwell – “Except for one area”


Commissioner Baldwin – “And you said it’s a black chain-link fence?”


William Barnwell – “Yeah”


Attorney Beeker – “OK so D to E is chain-link?  E to F is chain-link and then F all the way around to G is chain-link?”


William Barnwell – “Right”


Attorney Beeker – “But there’ll be no fencing between G and A? Just the back of the building?”


William Barnwell – “Right.”


Attorney Beeker – “OK, let me pass this around to the – and let the parties look at it too.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “It probably would be better if Karen were to take it and put it under the”


Attorney Beeker – “Yeah, that’s a good idea.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Can you put it on the?”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Just let us all see it.”


Karen Smith – “We’ll try it.  It’s a little too big but we’ll drive around it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “If you take a look on the televiewer, uh to – so you have a good clear picture as to where the chain-links going which is basically all the way around all three phases and then there’ll be a portion that has the double-sided wooden fence and then the portion really after the bend in the road there on up north to where the house is will have the uh landscaped Leland Cypress in it which would be in front of your place.”


Attorney Beeker – “Go down a little bit, bring it down, yes.  Keep going, OK, see point A.”


Commissioner Moyer – “No I can’t make it”


Attorney Beeker - “It’s in phase II. It’s up in phase II.”


Commissioner Moyer – “Oh yeah, I see it now, OK”


Attorney Beeker – “Can you point to it?”


Commissioner Moyer – “Yeah I see it.”

Commissioner Young – “The A’s up in the right hand corner.”


Attorney Beeker – “Right because that’s gonna be the start of the fence as I’m understanding. From A to B is just chain-link, from B to C which is at the culvert is going to be chain-link and Leland Cypress, from C to D – he moved D up a little bit because of grade – from C to D will be the double faced wood fence”


Chairman Hawkins – “And chain-link”


Attorney Beeker – “Is that and chain-link, both or just double faced wood, right.  OK from D to E is chain-link and then E back – or all the way around is chain-link.”


Commissioner Moyer – “I think we got it.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Alright.”


Commissioner Moyer – “I think that’s it.”


Attorney Beeker – “… that was a good suggestion, thank you.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Alright uh we got all the evidence, then I’ll ask if anyone wishes to give closing remark.  Applicant, do you wish to give any closing remarks?  OK.  Staff, do you have any closing remarks.”


Karen Smith – “No sir”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any additional parties, do you have any closing remarks? And applicant I guess don’t have any final closing remarks. OK.  If there’s no further evidence to be presented then I need a motion to go out of public hearing.”


Commissioner Moyer – “So moved.”


Chairman Hawkins – “All those in favor of that motion, say aye”


In unison “Aye”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK now that the evidence has been presented and the closing remarks concluded it would be appropriate for the Commissioners to discuss the issues presented today.  We can either vote today and direct staff to bring back findings of fact and conclusions consistent with the decision of the Board’s discussion or we can continue our discussion and decision at a later date.  I remind the Board however that the Board must make a decision within 30 days of the close of the hearing and we must issue a written decision within 45 days of the conclusion of the hearing so we had a chance to listen to all the evidence.  I – from what I gather and the notes I’ve got I think Mr. Barnwell’s tried to uh satisfy most of your concerns uh on the uh – the uh phase III uh a couple of uh things that we uh had not addressed as the Board was the uh – no actually we did number one too.  We went back and got it so.  I think we covered most of the uh – of the points and uh so I just open it up for Board discussion as to what your thoughts are and how you want to proceed.”


Commissioner Messer – “Mr. Chair, I wouldn’t mind going ahead and proceeding and finishing – and trying to finish up tonight if any of the other Board wouldn’t have a problem with that.  I think we’ve heard all the comments from both parties and all uh both parties have reached an agreement and I basically do not have a problem with that.”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK. I guess the one issue uh – I guess most of the Board feels that way – I think one of the issues we have to look at is the time.  The applicant’s indicated he needed a five year period uh Mr. Moyer asked some questions about his rationale for that and a three phase project uh doing a couple of phases in 2 ½ to 3 years would leave him basically just a couple of years to finish the back phase and that doesn’t seem unreasonable to me in the economic conditions so uh I don’t know what the Board’s feeling may be on uh – a five year grant for phase III since we’re only looking at that particular phase.  Larry, do you have any thoughts on that?”


Commissioner Young – “No, I just – I’d like to make a motion that we uh approve the application for Mr. Barnwell on his vested rights.”


Chairman Hawkins – “For five years or?”


Commissioner Young – “For the five years.”


Commissioner Moyer – “I think it’s gotta be subject to all the conditions”


Commissioner Young – “Yes, subject to the conditions that we’ve set forth.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Would uh – would you amend your motion to direct staff to bring back the findings that support a – an approval of the vested rights for a five year period subject to the conditions that we have listed to include the fence, question – some of the lighting questions and the questions that Ms. uh Smith covered on the conversation that they had?”


Commissioner Young – “Yes”


Chairman Hawkins – “Any others?”


Attorney Beeker – “There is one other issue and that is the uh either or, to either build the buildings or a park or some combination.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Oh yeah.  I need to go back and read my notes on that one.  That was a possibility of – I think Mr. Barnwell indicated that if he wasn’t able to, for whatever reason, to finish the uh third phase that he might consider some uh – an addition or alternate use for the phase III area for RV storage.”


Commissioner Young – “RV storage, boat.”


Attorney Beeker – “RV storage, boats.”


Commissioner Moyer – “The only problem I see with that – to meet the requiring of a site specific plan – if we’re gonna go to the ‘or’ I think we’d have to see a draft of a lay-out of how many boats and vehicles might be on there so we have some idea what was in mind.  I think we ran into this before and we ended up limiting the number of boats and limiting the number of vehicles that could be put on the spot so – so it made sense for the site and if we’re gonna do that I would ask that we have the applicant give us a – some type of rough sketch as to what would be involved so we can put that as a condition of the order.”

Chairman Hawkins – “Would you further amend your ordinance to include that because we need to include a requirement for a site specific plan anyway? So we’d have that option to look at and then bring it back for the Board’s final approval.”


Commissioner Young – “Yes”


Commissioner Baldwin – “Well there were some things that were talked about I think – I just want to make sure that we’re saying these are conditions.  I mean we – we heard things about hours of operation. We heard no – no commercial use of the storage units by the tenants for things other than storage.  I mean there were a number of things.  Are we saying we want to hear all those in this.”


Chairman Hawkins – “Those are the conditions that I mentioned to his conversation with Ms. Smith.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Chairman Hawkins – “And Larry amended his motion to include that.”


Commissioner Baldwin – “OK”


Commissioner Moyer – “And the other some- somewhat vague one, screening of the lighting to keep it out of the houses to the extent possible.  Mr. Barnwell mentioned some ways to do that.  Screen the”


Chairman Hawkins – “Shades”


Commissioner Moyer – “Shades or whatever and I would think we’d want that part of the order also.”

Chairman Hawkins – “And that would be part, Karen I think of your – your dialogue. Any – any others?  OK, if not, all those in favor of the motion on the floor say ‘aye’.”


In unison – “Aye”


Chairman Hawkins – “OK staff if you’ll bring that back, we’ll finish it up.  If no other business uh the Board’s adjourned.”  7:52 p.m.







Elizabeth W. Corn, Clerk to the Board                           Grady Hawkins, Chairman